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Examining the I AM of John 8:58

Taken (with notes )from here: https://christianpublishinghouse.co/2018/10/18/john-858-theological-bias-in-bible-translation/

John 8:58 is one of the most hotly debated verses in the Bible, so our investigation begins and ends here.

UASV ESV, LEB, HCSB, RSV NLV CEV
Jesus said to them, “Most truly I say to you, Before Abraham came to beI have been in existence.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham wasI am.” Jesus said to them, “For sure, I tell you, before Abraham was bornI was and am and always will be! Jesus answered, “I tell you for certain that even before Abraham wasI was, and I am.”
NLT NAB TEV, GNT NASB, ASV
Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even bornI Am! Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to beI AM.” “I am telling you the truth,” Jesus replied. “Before Abraham was born‘I AM’.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was bornI am.”
John 8:58 American Translation (AT) Jesus said to them, “I tell you, I existed beforeAbraham was born!

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Jesus and the Shema

HebrewSh’ma Yisra’eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.

Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

[John 8:57] Refuting the Idea that Jesus and Abraham met in Genesis 18

Let’s examine how the Jews twisted/perverted the words of Jesus in John 8:56:. Unfortunately Trinitarians are gullible enough to believe what the Jews were saying, and ended up equating the Angel in Genesis 18 to Jesus.

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Every Occurrence of Proskuneó-προσκυνέω in the LXX (Greek Old Testament) and the New Testament

APOLOGIZES, THIS IS NOT A COMPREHENSIVE LIST, AND IS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING EDITED, BUT THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH FOR THE POINT TO BE MADE. (It seems I have only searched for one form of the word, and many other forms of it exist)


Just to remind the readers; in a previous post we asked the question: “Does Worship actually mean Worship in the New Testament?”

Now we will approach this question from a different angle by examining every occurrence of this Greek word, Proskuneó/ προσκυνέω(G4352) in the LXX (Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament)  and the New Testament.

Below I have BLUED  all occurrences of the word where it is applied in the context of praising/bowing/reverence etc; and I have REDED all occurrences of the word where it actually means WORSHIP; as in the English sense of Worshiping something/someone like God, whether it be actually God, or false gods.

I have also GREENED instances where it refers to Jesus , as to be fair to our Christian readers and not impose my theological leanings from the get-go.

I will now summarize my research/conclusion here (so you don’t have to scroll all the way down 🙂

Let us recall that THIS WHOLE EXERCISE, is being done to address the argument that “Jesus is God, because he was worshiped“. If we are to assume that all occurrences of the word, Proskuneó/ προσκυνέω(G4352), must imply WORSHIP and not general reverence , then we would have no choice but to believe in the following:

FROM THE LXX

Genesis 33:6 -Esau is God.

Genesis 33:7-Esau is God.

Genesis 37:7-Sheaf is God.

Genesis 42:6 -Joseph is God.

Genesis 43:28 -Joseph is God.

Genesis 48:12- Jacob is God

1 Chronicles 29:20 -David and God are being worshipped at the SAME TIME.

2 Chronicles 24:17- King Joash  is God.

THEN THE NT:

Rev 3:9- Christians are God.

In conclusion, the argument that “Jesus is God because he is accepting Worship” can not be used as a proof of his so-called divinity.  If so , you have opened up the trinity to a pantheon of gods. Now you may argue that most of these instances are from the LXX. Fine, however JUST ONE instance from Rev 3:9 is good enough to show that you can not apply the meaning of ACTUAL WORSHIP universally. If you did, then you would have to agree that God is going to make the Jews WORSHIP the Christians as God.

And so ends a long strenuous exercise in examining the word , Proskuneó/ προσκυνέω(G4352) within in the LXX and the NT.

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Jesus is God because he was Resurrected and he had the Power to Resurrect people?

Another absurd claim made by Christians. Let us examine instances where others than Jesus not only were resurrected by some also had the power to resurrect others:

The Bible lists TEN separate occasions when God brought people back to life. The first one listed in Scripture is where Elijah the prophet raised a widow’s son from the dead. Elijah was staying in the person’s home when her son perish. After he stretched himself out over the child three times and cried out to the Eternal each time, something wonderful happened!

22. And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah, and the life of the child came into him again, and he lived (1Kings 17:22, HBFV throughout)

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Jesus is God because He went up to Heaven???

A common argument brought up by Christians; easily refutable by two verses from the Bible:

Genesis 5:24 (ESV)

24 Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him.

2 Kings 2:11 (ESV)
11 And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
If Jesus is God because he went up to heaven, then using that same line of reasoning one would also have to conclude that Enoch and Elijah are God as well.

John 8:58 and the ‘Bright and Morning Star’

Taken from here: https://unveiling-christianity.net/2008/05/08/is-the-biblical-jesus-lucifer/

I’m sure you have heard Christians argue for Jesus’ divinity in light of “Before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58). What they do is that they try to link this statement purportedly uttered by Jesus to that uttered by God in Exodus 3:14, “God said to Moses,”I am who I am”. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am’ has sent me to you.’” I do not wish to get into a discussion and exegesis of these two verses. That is not the purpose of this article. What I will do in this case is apply “I agree with you for the sake of argument”. So let’s agree for a moment(for the sake of argument) that Jesus is God because he used the words “I am” which God used, that is, he equated himself with God. That is the logic which the Trinitarians use. Let us now apply the same logic with the following:

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Biblical Commentary on Genesis 19:24

New International Version
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah–from the LORD out of the heavens.

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Biblical Commentary on Genesis 1:26

King James Bible (Genesis 1:26)

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

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Biblical Commentary on Genesis 1:1-3

Genesis 1:1-3New International Version (NIV)

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light

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