I just got off the phone with a Christian colleague of mine who has engaged us in a good discussion over the past month or so, on this blog. And he posed an interesting question to me, “Could one come to the belief in the trintiy based on the English Bible?”
Keeping aside the absurdness of the argument and that Jesus didnt speak Shakespearean English, I entertained his question anyways . I answered, that if you were to hypothetically find an isolated community, lets say….in South America and you taught them English in an unbiased way, and then gave them the Bible two things would either happen. Either they would become polytheists(because many people are called god and sons of God) or they would be smart enough to come to understand the difference between gods and the one and only God; and therefore would become monotheists. The fact is that the trinity is not taught in the Bible, and one can not come to this understanding unless they have Church Doctrine.
However, he replied “Well the majority of Christians have based their belief in the trinity on the English Bible!”. I asked him, ” Do you think I manipulated you or perhaps I have provided false evidence?” And he replied,” No but I think you should ask Bible translators, why they translated the way they translated certain things.”
At this point, I was shocked at someone place their belief on bible translators, and not the word of God. I made it clear, that my findings could easily be confirmed through BlueletterBible.com , and then I asked him, “Do you think it is correct for Christians to base their belief just on the English Bible? “
And he answered, “I don’t know”.
June 17, 2009 at 2:26 am
Well… there are hundreds of languages that the bible has been translated into, and with the diminished power of the Catholic Church… there are still many different dominations that are spring up that believe in the trinity doctrine.
But, to me… the word of God is something else… it isn’t the bible.. but it is a living being… that the real sense of our being , right and wrong, how we should act, and what we should believe in… should come from God himself.. not the necessarily a book.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any double-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul and spirit, joints and marrow, as it judges the thoughts and purposes of the heart.
2Co 3:3 You are like a letter written by Christ and delivered by us. But you are not written with pen and ink or on tablets made of stone. You are written in our hearts by the Spirit of the living God.
June 20, 2009 at 4:08 am
LOL Ar198 that made me laugh im pretty sure the Hindu people I talked to would love what you are saying. I was talking to a classmate of mine and he said a spiritualperson should vibrate a shake and god tells him what to do (prophet?) Well he responded by saying all Hindus are prophets we dont need to look at our books god tells us what to do. I asked him what is it? He said to worship them in statue form. (O.o?) uhuh and he expects me to believe that his mother can see into a person and tell exactly how he is. well I find that guidance is on inherent based on proof. For those who are blind will always be and those who wish to look at a broader spectrum will always find the truth. I will tell you this the bible has no way proving trinity to be accurate because if we carefully analyzed just the english in the bible we realize that in all the places many christians say that jesus is mentioned they are so broad they could be talking about many prophets. So I say this Let all christians post exactly what proofs they have of Jesus “Dying for their sins” in a new topic and through what is written I will disprove them. Who will accept my challenge?
June 20, 2009 at 9:52 am
heh – lol – yeah, I don’t know about the snake idea…
1Co 10:9 And don’t try to test Christ, as some of them did and were later bitten by poisonous snakes.
With that it is good to have little guide.
But hmm….
Jesus dying for sins…
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in its blood; and I have given it to you on the altar to take away your sin: for it is the blood which makes free from sin because of the life in it.
Heb 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
Old Testament connections
(Not all of Zechariah has happened yet, by the gospel writers I believe some of the prophesies are in connection with Christ)
Zec 13:1 “On that day there shall be a fountain opened for the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and uncleanness.
(Zec 13:7 “Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me,” declares the LORD of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.
Mat 26:31 Then Jesus said to them, “You will all fall away because of me this night. For it is written, ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’
Mar 14:27 And Jesus said to them, “You will all fall away, for it is written, ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.’)
————————————————————————————
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors.
Luke 22:37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.”
Gospels for Sins
Mat 26:27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you,
Mat 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
John 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
***John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
Luke 22:20 He did the same with the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, poured out for you.
Mark 14:24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.
Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Matthew 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Other Books
Rom 3:24 By his grace they are justified freely through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
***Rom 3:25 whom God offered as a place where atonement by Christ’s blood could occur through faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because he had waited patiently to deal with sins committed in the past.
Rom 5:8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
***Rom 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Rom 6:7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
Rom 6:9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself through Jesus Christ, according to the pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 so that we would praise his glorious grace that he gave us in the Beloved One.
***Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our offenses, according to the riches of God’s grace
Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:20 Through him he also reconciled all things to himself, whether things on earth or things in heaven, thus making peace through the blood of his cross.
1Co 5:7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
Heb 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
1 Jn 1:7 But if we keep living in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,
Rev 5:10 and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”
Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
———————————–
Hosea, chapter 6:
1 “Come, let us return to the LORD; for he has torn, that he may heal us; he has stricken, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him.
Rev 7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 “Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.
June 20, 2009 at 9:56 am
Sorry for all the passages, but with them all.. I believe that there is enough scripture support for Jesus dieing for the forgiveness of sins.